[0:02] Rich Dale: So welcome to the latest episode of the Made To Grow podcast. I'm delighted today to be welcoming Marv van Niekerk and Holly Steele-Nicholson, two esteemed colleagues here at Flowlens, onto the podcast, because we thought it was about time we talked a wee bit about what we do and the passion we have for both change management and helping companies get the most out of their systems. And a lot of that today is about the data that systems can produce.
[0:36] Rich Dale: You're not worrying about dozens of different spreadsheets with loads of different versions of information that you're trying to make sense of. With clean, solid, consistent systems, you get clean, solid and consistent data, albeit there are sometimes you maybe miss out on some things that you could be capturing, and we'll talk about that later. But before we get into the detail, Marv and Holly, could you just do a brief introduction and tell us what gets you out of the bed in the morning? Marv, would you like to go first?
[1:07] Marv van Niekerk: Yeah, sure. Thanks, Rich. I'm COO at Flowlens and I've been with the company for just over four years now. I'm an accountant, come from an accounting background which has spread across multiple sectors, from manufacturing to tech, non-profits as well as the healthcare sector. What gets me out of bed in the morning? Well, generally my wife's alarm clock. But I think the passion and energy that we as a team in Flowlens have in our customer focus is huge from a personal motivational point of view.
[1:58] Rich Dale: Yeah, that's what gets us out of bed in the morning. I think if we're not doing a good job for customers, that annoys us. And knowing that there are ways we can help certainly motivates me in the cold, dark mornings. And Holly, what about you?
[2:15] Holly Steele-Nicholson: Yeah, I've been with Flowlens for coming up to a year now. It's the first experience I've had in manufacturing. The past 10 years I've been working across multiple sectors in customer success and also analytics, so public sector, telecoms, consumer electronics. But I think it's been really interesting seeing the different types of data that comes through from manufacturers and the different processes that they have compared to those other sectors.
[2:43] Holly Steele-Nicholson: And I've spent the last probably six months now working as part of our Smart Manufacturing Data Hub project, working with small businesses to help improve how they're using their data and creating dashboards and different reports to help them manage a bit more tactically. So I think that's been the most interesting thing the past couple of months.
[3:06] Rich Dale: And what gets you out of bed in the morning?
[3:09] Holly Steele-Nicholson: Well, it's been really useful working with those SMEs because, as I say, it's completely different data from what I've had to use previously. And definitely helping them, start working with them and seeing how those dashboards can help them manage better, has been really interesting.
[3:32] Rich Dale: Brilliant. So, Marv, just coming back to you.
[3:57] Rich Dale: So, Marv, just thinking about the foundations, in order to get to that point where we're looking at data and we can use data to help SMEs make decisions and understand what's going on with their supply chain, their sales, production and whatnot, we need to have an environment where you have a consistent system, people bought in.
[4:38] Rich Dale: So what are the key ingredients of a successful change project for a small manufacturer to get to that point where they've got reliable data?
[4:48] Marv van Niekerk: The biggest thing: understanding the reason for wanting to implement a new system is key for us, being the system provider and an implementer of that system, and then taking the team through the process and ultimately delivering a solution which meets those requirements. And that's the biggest thing. So I think a clear understanding from the get-go is key in any project being successful. The company culture is extremely important, one where, if there's a continuous improvement culture, it's a lot easier. People don't like change, human nature. People are just resistant to change in general.
[5:52] Marv van Niekerk: But if you have a continuous improvement culture in your organisation and within your teams, then introducing new processes, new systems and things like that are easier. There's a number of mistakes why digital projects fail, which are well documented. But a big one is that people implement a system and then introduce new workflows.
[6:21] Marv van Niekerk: And that causes a huge amount of disruption internally in the business, because you're now reconfiguring your business to work for the solution, instead of mapping out your processes initially, early stage, going, this is what we need, and then finding the right solution for your business. Trying to reverse engineer your processes for a system is never a good idea.
[6:54] Rich Dale: Yeah, that's what we advocate, that mapping process, and there are systems for every niche these days. So doing a bit of research and finding the right tool, rather than shoehorning yourself into a one size fits all solution, will give you that better outcome. And Holly, you're involved as well on the customer success side in training people. And we find that training is not a one-time affair. Reinforcement is key, particularly in seeing how those workflows actually work day to day in the new systems.
[7:36] Rich Dale: But how do successful implementations succeed in embedding that change in the business from your point of view?
[7:45] Holly Steele-Nicholson: Well, I think one of the key things, we always set up milestones for customers, because you can't throw them at the end and give them everything at once. It's too overwhelming. So I think a gradual adoption is the best approach and then people don't get overloaded. That ongoing training and support as well: we've got customers that have been using the platform for over a year that still require regular touch points and training.
[8:09] Holly Steele-Nicholson: And I think that's just something that customers need to accept, that it's going to be an ongoing process and they need to invest in spending time with us with ongoing training. But I think also, having champions within the org that are really going to push the product, that understand it, and that are going to drive its usage, is really key as well. And those need to be influential people that are listened to within the organisation. So I think identifying those champions earlier on certainly helps the process.
[8:40] Holly Steele-Nicholson: But yes, as Marv says, culture is a massive part of it. And we do get customers who maybe start off using the platform with the best of intentions, but then things start to slide and they stop filling in certain data points. And that always makes it more difficult when you're trying to pull out insight, because if key pieces of information are missing or your data quality is poor, then the process is redundant. So, yes, it's really important to get it right from the start and keep reinforcing its correct usage.
[9:14] Marv van Niekerk: Just to add on that, Rich, one key thing is there's still a business to run. There's never a good time to implement a system. So having, as Holly says, those enthusiastic champions who are driving the adoption and use of a new system and new workflows is absolutely key to success.
[9:45] Marv van Niekerk: But it's also then remembering that, depending on the size of the organisation, you've potentially got a CEO sitting up at the top or an MD sitting at the top going, right, you do this project, you go off and do it, and expect the business to run smoothly at the same time. There's never a good time to do this, and there needs to be proper consideration for, right, this is a huge undertaking.
[10:15] Marv van Niekerk: We know people are going to need help and extra time while still delivering for your customers at the same time. So there needs to be that awareness of, obviously minimise any disruption, but certainly an awareness that people will need help and a bit of leeway on certain things. So resource allocation when it comes to implementing a project is key.
[10:47] Rich Dale: Marv, another side of this is the data. So before we come on to some of the stuff that Holly's going to talk about in terms of insights and opportunities, there's the hard work of getting your data, good quality data and relevant data, into the system. How do you recommend companies tackle that?
[11:17] Marv van Niekerk: I think initially, if you look at overall time spent on a project implementation, you're looking at realistically about 60 to 65% of the time. So you need about two-thirds of the time on planning. And that's looking at your data, making sure your data is clean, making sure you're pulling in the right data. And then the rest of the time is training, proving and testing, effectively.
[11:58] Marv van Niekerk: But if we ran a project out for 10 weeks, you're talking about six weeks that is making sure you have the correct data to start with, because you're building a house effectively. And if you're building it on a sandbank, well, all your concrete is going to sink at some point and your house is going to fold in, because you don't have the proper foundations. So again, understanding what you want out the other side is key to putting the right data in initially.
[12:37] Rich Dale: That brings me to an interesting point in terms of what you want out of it. People can have death by data capture.
[12:50] Rich Dale: What you want out of it is really what's going to drive impact in your business. How do you help companies figure out what data capture is necessary?
[13:03] Holly Steele-Nicholson: Yeah, it's really important that all companies now have a data strategy. And the starting point of that is outlining what are your main key objectives. What are the things that you need to focus on in the long term, shorter term and immediate term? And you go from there. So, will the data that's being collected help improve those outcomes or help achieve those objectives? And if it doesn't, then there's not much point collecting it, because you end up, as you say, death by data.
[13:40] Holly Steele-Nicholson: Coming down to how you're collecting it and the quality of the data, you want to make sure that all of the platforms that it's coming from are integrated, so that you don't have the same data being captured in different places and potentially some of that is outdated. So you want to, as much as possible, try and integrate your platforms. You also want to make sure that where you're capturing data, it's mainly autonomous. You want to minimise the human input, because obviously that gives rise to human error, and leverage automation to help do that.
[14:14] Holly Steele-Nicholson: And it is a continuous process. So you might start off with the best intention in the world, but you'll have to continue to refine that strategy and how you're collecting data, and constantly checking the quality of the data. So it's a continual iterative process. And it's also really important to ensure that however you're viewing the data, that you're surfacing information that's actionable. You can create dashboards for everything nowadays, but if the information that's coming from the dashboard isn't actionable, then they're just not going to be looked at.
[14:57] Holly Steele-Nicholson: That's where it comes back to really ensuring that the KPIs and the metrics that you're monitoring are tied back to your overall business goals and objectives.
[15:07] Rich Dale: And coming on to that point, what are the kind of things that you see so far that are actually driving impact? What are some of the examples?
[15:19] Holly Steele-Nicholson: So there's three types of dashboard which we develop. One are strategic dashboards, so those are high level, for your senior management team or your senior audience. They'll be looking at long-term objectives and trends. You've got high-level KPIs in there like profitability, customer satisfaction and retention, supply chain overall performance. But in the day-to-day, we also create more tactical and operational dashboards. Tactical dashboards are looking at more short to medium-term decisions and performance optimisation. That'll be things like benchmarking suppliers, to see whether or not you need to switch a supplier or change partners.
[16:00] Holly Steele-Nicholson: It looks at things like part cost comparison and seeing trends in part prices over time, lead time comparison, whether you're getting your sales orders out on time, or even whether you're receiving parts in on time and if that's affecting your sales dispatches. And then you've got daily immediate operational insights. So most recently we've done some alerts that go out via email to surface purchase orders that are late, or purchase orders that are due in that day.
[16:34] Holly Steele-Nicholson: So an email hits the admin manager or the stock controller's email every day to say, hey, here's all the parts that are due in, or here's the parts that were due in yesterday that haven't arrived yet. Emails for sales order dispatches that are due out that also have the part availability in it, so you can see whether or not you're able to fulfil those sales orders. So little things like that really help managing day to day.
[17:05] Holly Steele-Nicholson: And it just means that, rather than having to go through table after table of information in a database, you can actually see it on a nice little email or a dashboard that pops up every day.
[17:18] Rich Dale: I think one of the things that we see a lot is people spend so much time trying to pull together that data from manual systems, maybe it's different spreadsheets, that by the time they've done the preparation of the data, they've run out of time and energy to actually figure out what it's showing them.
[17:43] Rich Dale: So being able to have that kind of information at your fingertips or fed to you is much easier, because again, it comes back to that foundation that Marv talked about. You've got the data that you can rely on, whether it's sales, purchasing, production and supplier performance. A couple of interesting examples from customers who, for example, are even looking at their own dispatch performance and reverse engineering outcomes for why the different orders end up being delivered late, and using that information to drill down to create more opportunities for improvement.
[18:32] Rich Dale: And also, as you mentioned earlier, suppliers that are continually letting us down, where lead times are always stretched and those are having an ongoing impact on your ability to turn orders around and generate cash flow. So one of the things that we've been working on recently is our diagnostic tool, which helps customers see where they're doing well and where they are missing opportunities, I suppose. Do you want to cover a wee bit of the purpose of that too?
[19:12] Rich Dale: What it does and the benefit of it.
[19:14] Holly Steele-Nicholson: Yeah, it's really a high level check we do to see what key pieces of information are missing that could generate better insights and decision making. So key examples would be, you don't put due dates on your sales orders or on your job cards, which means that you can't track on time delivery rates for sales orders. You can't see what's due out that day. When it comes to job cards, you can't effectively see your production schedule or your production plan.
[19:50] Holly Steele-Nicholson: There's other more granular information that sometimes gets so on sales leads or sales order data, capturing sector that you're selling to, the locations that you're selling to, that's all relevant information to help you track your customer profiles and analyse over time what sectors are buying which types of products. So there's strategic decisions that could be influenced if you captured that data. So, yes, we do a quick diagnostic to see what core pieces of information are being missed in each of the different modules and sections of the platform.
[20:26] Holly Steele-Nicholson: And we push that out to our customers and then we can schedule follow-up training sessions. But it's really important, and it comes back to what we said at the start about customers start off with the best of intentions and they maybe start using the system correctly, but over time things start to slide, and it's good at reinforcing those better processes and correct procedures for using the platform.
[20:52] Rich Dale: Excellent. Comes back to our obsession about customer service as well.
[21:00] Rich Dale: And I think you mentioned the Smart Manufacturing Data Hub project, which we've been grateful to be supported by this year, working on this Lighthouse project.
[21:13] Rich Dale: So it has been useful to look at a diverse range of customers and see how some are more proficient at the fundamentals and others are missing opportunities for getting more out of both Flowlens and their data, and turning that into effectively what is a managed service, so that at the end of each month we can have a call, see what's on their agenda this month, what kind of issues they're having and what manipulation of the data could help reveal some insights to solve those challenges.
[21:57] Rich Dale: Okay, well look, for our listeners, that's been a bit of a whistle stop tour of some of the fundamentals of how to set up a project that's going to give you the best chances of succeeding, setting the right expectations, and thinking about the kind of metrics that drive your business in reality and how you would go about having a data strategy. I think every company these days is a tech company, even if it's purely in terms of how it uses systems, machine learning and analytics to perform better.
[22:38] Rich Dale: But before we wrap up, I always like our guests to leave the listener with one thought. So Marv, would you like to go first?
[22:51] Marv van Niekerk: Sure.
[22:54] Marv van Niekerk: Boring, repeatable process sets you free. And by that I mean remove drama from your business, do things consistently, which again is a huge thing feeding into your data and making sure that you're able to have something that you can make decisions upon, ultimately, at the end of the day. But yes, as an accountant, boring repeatable processes set you free.
[23:24] Rich Dale: Perfect. And Holly.
[23:27] Holly Steele-Nicholson: I think just something to summarise what we discussed previously about data overload. It's about the data quality over data quantity. And it comes back to that point of ensuring that you're capturing the right information that's going to help you improve and achieve your business objectives, as opposed to capturing everything possible. So focusing on the core data is the most important takeaway, probably.
[23:58] Rich Dale: Brilliant. Well, guys, thank you very much. I appreciate you taking your time out of your days to share those thoughts with the listeners. Obviously, you're both on LinkedIn, so if people want to connect, they can look you up on LinkedIn. Apart from that, it's great to have you on, and until next time.
[24:21] Holly Steele-Nicholson: Thanks, Rich.
[24:22] Marv van Niekerk: Pleasure to be here.
[24:22] Rich Dale: Thanks, guys.
